Callie: Hey y’all. Welcome to Fast Facts for Gen Z. I’m your host, Callie, and I don’t know anything about anything. Come with me on my exploration of the world, and I’ll tell you everything you ever, and never, wanted to know through the eyes of Gen Z.
Today’s episode: a conversation with a teacher about the youth of today and navigating a changing educational climate.
Today I’m joined by Xavier Adams, a high school teacher who is, full disclosure, not Gen Z. Hi Xavier.
Xavier: Hey, how’s it going Callie? Glad to be here.
Callie: It is going well, we’re having a great day. Can you introduce yourself? Who you are, what you do?
Xavier: Sure. So I’m Xavier Adams, I am a first year teacher, I teach social studies – particularly world history and African American Studies – and I’m excited for next year to also be adding a Latinx Studies class to the curriculum that I’ll be offering. So that’s a little bit about me! I guess I can throw in some biographical information. I’m from Kansas City, born and raised. Kansas City has the best barbecue in the world, greater than North Carolina.
Callie: (sighs) Whatever.
Xavier: Yes, I love my hot takes.
Callie: (laughs) A controversial figure to start out. I believe, and I have to think about this to make sure, but I think that you’re my first guest who’s not Gen Z. You don’t speak for the youth of today. But I wanted to talk to you today because you are a high school teacher and you spent a lot of time and energy thinking about and working with, like, people around my age and younger.
Xavier: Yeah! Yeah, interestingly enough, my second week into college, I was approached by a guy who was doing some church work with students, particularly low income students of color. He was like, “Hey, we need some volunteers, you want to come and join us?” I was like, “sure.” And so that was back in 2013, fall of 2013, so I’ve been working with high school students essentially five months after I graduated from high school. Eight years now, yeah.
Callie: Wow! Eight years. You’re old! I was thinking, “how old was I in 2013?” I was like eleven.
Xavier: Oh!! (Callie laughs) Here I was thinking I was young.
Callie: You are young. So, having been in your class and watched you teach I can tell how much working with students means to you. Like you’re very thoughtful about the way that you teach and interact with students and you seek feedback from us regularly. In my experience at least, that’s not a typical teaching style. So how would you describe the way you approach teaching?
Xavier: Going off of that particular aspect of soliciting feedback from the students… I mean, in a lot of ways, if we take public education seriously to be providing students the context, the information, the thinking skills they need to navigate this world, that really just means that we as teachers have to give y’all what you need, and there’s no better way to figure that out then asking y’all what you need. I mean, I can assume a lot. I graduated from high school, again, back in 2013, but times have changed. I’m not Gen Z. So what a Gen Z student might need to thrive is very different than myself and I think owning that and recognizing that is important. But yeah, beyond just, like, in general soliciting feedback, I think my approach to teaching really has “learning” kind of… almost as a secondary piece, which feels controversial to say as a teacher. You know, I… I’m convicted by the reality that, you know, not everyone’s going to go off to college and that’s okay. Folks coming out of high school, choosing to enter the work force immediately – for whatever reasons, whether it’s, you know, the need for money, desire to just kind of get the next phase of life moving, whatever that is – those students need something different than someone going off to college. And ultimately I think what all students need is someone that cares deeply about them, and so, for me, that is the primary thing entering into the classroom. Greeting students, saying hello, asking them how they are – and trying to to mean that in a genuine way. I think oftentimes we can get caught up in niceties and they kind of become hollow. But trying to preserve that intentionality with students, for me, is the most important thing.
Callie: Yeah and I… I definitely can see that in- in the way you interact with students. Your word choice is very thoughtful, the kinds of conversations you start are very intentional. I value that a lot in- in my work with students. Our job is kind of secondary, like the- the building relationships and approaching conversations with- with empathy and- and compassion. I think that’s really I think it’s a really interesting teaching style and not one that I’ve seen often.
Xavier: Well, and too, like thinking about, again, people might go to college or into the workforce immediately, but the common thread of that is you’re gonna be dealing with human beings, wherever you go. Even if you work IT, even if you work customer support, like, you’re still interacting with human beings in some way. And so it’s unfortunate, but the reality is, like, our world, particularly our country, struggles to connect with other human beings, particularly human beings that are different than us. And that piece of relationship building is- is crucial and I think a lot of times we just kind of assume, like, as I get older, these things kind of become habituated, but in some way, like, we need examples of how to do that. How to be a good human being. What does it mean to consider how someone else is doing. What does it mean to then also respond to the feedback that someone gives us. To cultivate spaces for everyone.
Callie: Yeah, totally, that modeling is super important. Like, even if you don’t reach every single kid like they saw you doing that anyway, which I think is- is really important. Let’s talk about your process of becoming a teacher. So you- you’ve told this story in class but I want you to tell it again now – how did you decide that you wanted to pursue education?
Xavier: Going off of what I was saying earlier about having worked with students since 2013: initially started off in a church context; my dad has been a pastor for… I want to say about thirty years now. So I grew up in the church, church kind of raised me in a lot of different ways in terms of how I think about the world, and so I found it important to kind of continue that work. And so I went off to Baylor University in Waco, Texas, studied religion and Spanish, to kind of think about these things and to kind of continue that work. I was very interested in becoming a youth pastor, but then I graduated from college and started doing nonprofit work, kind of became enchanted with that world. I did nonprofit work for about two and a half years and then I just realized both the church and the nonprofit world are really good forces in the world when done well, but they are not as embedded in the daily lives as public education is, at least in this time. And so yeah, just the reality that being a public school teacher allows me to see students five days of the week compared to one or two times a week, and just being in a system that students by law have to inhabit just seems to be…
Callie: They’re stuck with you.
Xavier: Yeah, they’re stuck with me! Whether or not they want to be. Whereas, like, the church and nonprofit world, it’s very voluntary. It’s kind of come-and-go as you please.
Callie: You get a lot more variety of students in a public school setting than you would in- in a church or nonprofit setting also.
Xavier: Yeah, certainly. I mean, churches tend to be… I mean schools are this as well, they tend to kind of be concentrations of the particular demographics of that community. Churches, more so than public schools, are very self-selected in who attends that church. I think it’s Dr. King who once said that Sunday service is one of the most segregated times of day in our country. Which is just to say, like, again, self-selection. Black folks historically creating their own churches as forms of resistance to oppressive forms of white Christianity that they’ve experienced in the world, and so that legacy continues. Whereas public schools: segregated perhaps by AP, honors, and standard courses, but at least you have more physical proximity within the same space that allows for potential for more integrated approaches to learning and community building.
Callie: I’ve never heard of the, like, the academic separations between students described as a type of segregation but I think that that’s a really good description of it. There’s a lot of a lot more access to different types of- of students in public schools than in- than in church settings, so I understand why that would be appealing to you. When you were going through the process of becoming a teacher – that’s not, like, an easy thing to do – so were there times where you thought that it wasn’t the right path or you almost changed your mind?
Xavier: Yeah, I mean, the process of becoming a teacher, particularly the program I did at Duke, is very intense time-commitment-wise. So we were required to student-teach essentially for an entire year, while also being full-time students.
Callie: That’s intense.
Xavier: Yeah! It’s like, okay, I’m gonna be a student while also teaching students and being a student in one setting is just, like, incredibly difficult. Throwing on essentially an unpaid full time job on top of that… it’s just, how do I have enough time for everything when one of these I’ve already wouldn’t have enough time for? I don’t think this was intentional about the program but that structure didn’t really cause me to reorient what my priorities are, in thinking about transitioning from the student to teacher. Particularly about grades. I’ve- I’ve shared this with you all before in class that I think grades are dumb. They don’t really have a meaning. They can have a good meaning if there’s a system around those grades that is healthy, that generally reflects understanding and learning and critical thinking rather than just regurgitating something on a test. But because our current system doesn’t do that, I do think GPA, grades are meaningless. And so as a graduate student, I was obsessed with trying to get amazing grades, and being in that space of both the student and a teacher, it really forced me to like look at myself and be like, “okay, you give grades now to students who are also struggling mentally, like you are, to aspire for good grades. Is this the best system, moving forward, for them and yourself? What does it mean then, to take seriously learning as a holistic approach to building a better society? Which is just to say, like, mental health needs to be at the forefront of how we structure our schools and school buildings and GPA is not conducive to cultivating mental health.
Callie: Yeah, so playing both the roles of- of teacher and student at the same time sort of changed your perspective on the value of grades?
Xavier: Yeah! Yeah, I mean, I desperately wanted to be a “perfect” student, whatever “perfect” means. I desperately wanted the perfect GPA. You know. I mean, we- we all do this, like, I did this especially, like, complaining about the amount of work that I had, the unrealistic expectations of trying to be both the student and the teacher. You know, more often than not we make it through, but there’s a lot of people that don’t make it through. Not necessarily with my teaching program, but with the public education system. The demands that are placed on students I think oftentimes are under appreciated by teachers.
Callie: Yeah, just because we survived and got through it doesn’t mean it was good or it should stay that way.
Xavier: Right. And there’s a big difference between surviving and thriving, and if we’re only treating society, a public school education system, that teaches kids how to survive, then we only expect the bare minimum, whereas we really should have the highest hopes and highest desires for ourselves and other people.
Callie: Yeah. I’ve felt… conflicted in my criticisms of the school system recently, because I’m a similar student to the way you were. I have gotten to a point where if, like, a- a grade isn’t what I wanted to be, I know it- I understand that’s not a reflection on me, but I still really want to be better. I don’t run into that problem very much because the school system, in the way it’s structured, does work for me as the student that I am, and I understand that that is a position that is exceptionally privileged, and there are not lots of people who fit the mold the school system poured them into. So I have to- have to be really conscious of that when I’m criticizing the school system, especially because, you know, I- I’ve made critiques before and people have been like, “But what do you- why are you talking about grades like that? Don’t you have a hundred in that class?” And I’m like, okay, yes but that’s not the point. Yeah, it’s weird to critique a system that you participate so deeply in.
Xavier: Mmhm that’s very true. Sometimes you have to critique the system that we inhabit. I mean, just even thinking about what you’re saying, like people saying to you, “Why are you saying anything, you have a one hundred?” Again, surviving versus thriving. You can survive and have a one hundred, but what did it cost you to get there?
Callie: Sure, and like even if it- if it cost me- if it didn’t cost me very much, like I can look around and see what it’s costing other people. And I- I can- I can call out problems that exist that don’t affect me. I have to. Because otherwise like what, am I, I’m part of the problem then. So this is your- your first year teaching, right? Aside from student teaching.
Xavier: Yes! Yep, first year teaching.
Callie: So what were your thoughts on starting that during a pandemic?
Xavier: I think in a lot of ways there was a both-and situation for me in that not having any real experience in the classroom didn’t have me set up to have certain expectations of what school should look like. Because I was starting from scratch, I could already imagine new things. Like, I didn’t have to say, “All right, how do I make this cool idea that I’ve done in person for fifteen years now work online?” I could just start from ground zero and say, “Okay, I’m online, how do we make this work?” I think that was a benefit that I definitely had going into this year. I will say the difficulty that all teachers experience is like, feeding off of students’ energy. And yeah, the blank screens – which is totally understandable, like I, at the end of the day, I’m totally fine with students having black screens for whatever reasons they need. If you can learn with a blank screen, you can still learn it, so it doesn’t matter to me. But just feeding off of students energy is hard to do when you can’t always perceive it in traditional ways. But like things like the chat box in Zoom! Different ways in which I think even students that typically are not participating in-person then felt comfortable to either send a private chat or send a chat in the public chat. But yeah, I mean, ultimately teaching this year was a marathon that I never want to run again and it felt like a marathon with cinder blocks on.
Callie: That’s a- that’s a really great description of this year, yeah. Yes. Our school went back into like a- like, into a hybrid-type learning in like January or February, so some students got back in person, but during that- that semester where you didn’t have any students in the classroom, and if I’m going to go out on a limb and say you didn’t have that many cameras on, that semester must have been kind of hard on the teachers.
Xavier: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it definitely takes a toll. This is a lesson that I value learning from someone that’s older than me, who said, you know when you’re in your forties, fifties, sixties, you still have the same insecurities that you did as a teenager. Which is just to say, self-conscious students – which we’re all self conscious, right? We want to be accepted, we want to be liked, we want to be feeling as if we’re doing well – that same self-consciousness that someone has as a student is also what they experience as a teacher. And so not seeing screens on, having empty chat boxes, really does take a toll based on my conversations, on teachers to kind of question their own teaching skills.
Callie: Gosh, I can imagine.
Xavier: Yeah.
Callie: That’s rough dude. I mean, all through- all through the first semester and- and the second semester also, I really tried to keep my camera on as much as I could because I… I could see the pain in my teacher’s eyes. And it was- it was- it was real sad. You know, starting out, it was really hard because I was afraid- I was the only student in all of my classes in the first semester that had- who had my camera on, at all, ever and I felt super self conscious about it for a couple months. Eventually it became normal to me. It was difficult to start off because I felt like everyone was looking at me and judging me all the time, and there’s not very many places to look so it’s entirely possible that that worry was true, but eventually I, you know, decided that that was fine. But I can imagine that from the teacher’s perspective, being that person on camera who everyone is looking at and probably judging, and also having to teach an entire class that way? Yeah… y’all have strength I don’t have.
Xavier: Yeah, I mean… I don’t know if that’s true though! I think if a lot of y’all were in our position, you would get the job done. I mean, I think teachers, a lot of times get into the career because they care about students and that care can compel us to do things greater than what we normally can achieve on our own. Yeah, I mean showing up for students is what most teachers desire, even if they don’t always express that or even if they don’t always live that out, I would like to think that that’s why a lot of teachers get into the profession.
Callie: You’d like to think. (Xavier laughs) And I- I also think that that’s true. I am- I have a similar optimism. I have gotten better over the years of creating relationships with my teachers, even the ones who don’t intentionally, like reach out to- to build relationships with students, and just- just to learn what makes them why they’re here, what makes them do it. You know, some teachers, like my math teacher this year, the pandemic and- and teaching online just hit him, and he was like, “No, I’m not teaching anymore, I’m gonna go be an accountant, I can’t do this. I love the students but I can’t do this career anymore.” So he’s not- he’s not teaching anymore.
Xavier: I mean, teacher burnout is definitely a thing.
Callie: For sure, yeah. So now that your first year is over, what are your thoughts on teaching my age group? What are your reflections, what do you think about us?
Xavier: Um… I am incredibly grateful for Gen Z’s honesty… and willingness to tell the truth, even when it is SO full of shade. (both laughing)
Callie: I appreciate the way you constructed that sentence.
Xavier: I mean but it is true! Like, you know, honesty can be delivered in a lot of ways. There are tactful ways to deliver honesty, there are kind of more harsh, blunt ways to deliver honesty, but there is something good about expressing what you like and don’t like. And so I am grateful for that. But overall, teaching- teaching Gen Z is funny. I mean, just the amount of times- so I don’t know if we’ve mentioned this yet: I’m 26.
Callie: He’s not old, we just make fun of him for it. He’s not actually old.
Xavier: (sighs) I think a lot of the students would disagree with you on that and I’m totally fine with that.
Callie: They need to get some- some life experience.
Xavier: We all do.
Callie: Yeah.
Xavier: We all do.
Callie: But you were saying, you’re 26.
Xavier: Yeah! It’s so funny how many… I mean it’s- it’s along the same line we just ended, like so many students, like, think I’m ridiculously old. Like when I use slang, like I remember one time I was describing something that I ate over the weekend to a group of ninth graders that I had in my class… I think I said something along the lines of, “yeah I had this food and it smacked.” And, you know, “smacked” being, like the food tasted good, I really liked it. And the students were like, “oh my gosh, don’t say that,” and I was like, “what, is that term no longer in use?” And they were like, “No! People still say it, but you’re old.” I’m old???? (both laugh) I’m like, “Child, please.”
Callie: “Child, please.” Yeah, Gen Z is funny and my- my- my- thoughts about Gen Z are obviously heavily pro-Gen Z- biased. I live in here, this is my life. But it is funny how some people think of people in their twenties as old. At the beginning of the school year did you have any, like, hopes for how the year was going to go? Or fears! Hopes or fears.
Xavier: I think what I hoped for, particularly for the African American Studies class, is that… I mean, in the middle of the semester I had to kind of, like, create an official course description of the Af-Am class, and I think I would also say this about education in general – is that I hope it becomes a liberative space. I think liberation can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people, and I was hoping that this semester, both semesters really, can be that for students, and you know liberative might just mean an escape from having to do the wear and tear of daily being-in-a-pandemic. It could be learning more about oneself in the world and learning more about one’s history and the profound legacy that one originates from. Liberation can mean cultivating joy as resistance to different forces. I mean there are so many social realities and political realities that also blanketed this previous year of learning, and so joy as liberation, rest as liberation I think is undervalued. Yeah, I mean, I just hoped that, for me primarily, that was what I was wanting out of the school year. That it would be liberative for students.
Callie: What do you think about that now? Do you think that that panned out or do you know?
Xavier: Hmm… that’s a good question, it’s always good to reflect.
Callie: Mhm.
Xavier: Hm. Do I think students felt liberated by this class? I would say… yes and no. Only because I am someone that tends to think there’s always room to grow. But I- I would say I do think students felt liberated. At least a little bit because of some of the things that I read in students’ letters to Governor Cooper. So I guess as a preface to the audience, North Carolina has a bill that currently is sitting in the Senate, it was passed in the House, House Bill 324, which would make it illegal for public school teachers to really teach about the legacy of racism in the foundation of our country’s history. And so I had students write letters to Governor Cooper, kind of expressing their thoughts about that and what a potential passing of that bill would mean to them. Students that chose to write that letter kind of described the classroom as a liberative space and so I was grateful for that. Students saying that the meditations and the journaling in class meant something to them; I see that as evidence that it was liberative. But I’m someone that deeply desires to cultivate critical thinking in students and I think it’s hard to do that in the online world and so that’s something I look forward to for next year.
Callie: Ooh, yeah I agree with that. In- in my conversations with my peers about school online, especially for students who don’t regularly engage, for whatever reason, it feels very difficult to like, really be engaged by the class or think about it in any sort of depth. Feels like you’re just watching a movie, you know? And, most of the time, an incredibly boring one. Not in your class.
Xavier: (laughs, sarcastically) Well thanks.
Callie: You’re welcome.
Xavier: I appreciate that, I’ll make sure to throw in that A+ for you now.
Callie: Oh, good! Yeah. This African American Studies class: this is the first time it’s been taught at our school since… you said this at some point, what, 2011?
Xavier: I think 2010. It was taught 11 years ago by an incredible woman named Brenda McCormick, and she taught at the high school, man, I want to say at least twenty years? Back then it was, I think a Minorities Studies class, is what it was labeled as, and they actually kind of did a broader approach than what I did and I actually really admired what it was. So they would talk about primarily Black history in the context of the United States, but also Native American history, Latinx history, Asian-American history. What’s interesting about that class when Ms. McCormick was teaching it: students that took that class could take it as a substitute for U.S. History, so oftentimes when we think about-
Callie: Whoa….
Xavier: Yeah! Oftentimes when we think about elective classes like the African American Studies class it’s like, “Why is this an elective? Why is this considered to be additional to the U.S. history class?” But back then, they were offered full credit for U.S. history by taking the Minorities Studies class. Which I think is also just a good reminder of how we think about history! History is not always linear in its progression, you know? Sometimes folks back then actually got it right, and sometimes we undo the work that they got right. Sometimes undoing that work is intentional, sometimes it’s unintentional, but either way, I mean I would love to see that be the way in which we are giving credit for the African American Studies class and Latinx Studies class.
Callie: That would be super cool, yeah. You said that you’re teaching Latinx Studies next year, right?
Xavier: Yeah, yeah, that’s the plan. Currently scheduled to teach it. I’m excited for the opportunity to do that. In a lot of ways, it’ll be kind of a journey of discovering myself. So I didn’t- I didn’t find out I was half Mexican until I was like 22, 23.
Callie: Oh wow.
Xavier: So like, for most of my life, I only thought of myself as Black, particularly being from African descent. Now it’s like, yeah, what does it mean to be Mexican? Which is why, I mean I don’t know if you remember- yeah, actually you do remember this. The idea of essentialism that I taught at the beginning of the semester is so critical to push back against. There is no cookie cutter “authentic” way of being. Being “authentically” Mexican is really just kind of a fallacy in and of itself.
Callie: Yeah, so it’ll be interesting for you to see what parts of the history you- you uncover that resonate with you and that you feel connected to. I expect that will be an- an interesting journey in self discovery.
Xavier: Yeah, and I think that self-discovery piece is what all classes should be like. It shouldn’t just be relegated to these kinds of ethnic studies classes. But students should be able to discover more about themselves, again, tying it to the liberative piece, should be able to discover more about themselves in every English class, every social studies class. Even math! I mean, like, people sometimes think in numbers, they don’t always think in literature yeah.
Callie: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we- we are stories that we tell ourselves, and we have to build that story in whatever way makes the most sense to us, and sometimes those ways are not positive. And I think that this- that school- that the public school system, as it exists right now, does a really good job of teaching students to think of themselves and- and tell themselves a negative story. That you’re not good enough, or that you don’t know what you’re doing. I am hopeful that in the future there will be space made for students to learn to tell a better story, about themselves, to themselves, figure out who they are and what that means.
Xavier: I think you used that quote for your yearbook quote, right?
Callie: I did, I did do that, yeah.
Xavier: It sounded familiar. Yeah, discovering identity is thrilling but also a daunting task.
Callie: Since this is your first year teaching, how did you feel when you were hired for that class?
Xavier: Yeah, I mean originally when I was hired, I was just hired to teach world history and then through conversations with a particular individual… out of respect to them, I’ll leave the nameless in the conversation, but this individual was very intentional about thinking about who should teach this course. Not just thinking about who can teach it well or the best, but also thinking about who inhabits what identity in that particular space and what that might mean and what that might do for the students in that class. And so I’m very grateful for that teacher who reached out to me saying, “Hey, this is a course that we’re offering next year. You know, we hired you as a world history teacher. I want to put this on your radar and I think we need to have serious conversations about who’s actually gonna teach this class next year.”
Callie: That’s really good and that- that’s- that’s a really interesting story because I was wondering about that at the beginning of the year when I received my schedule and a different teacher’s name was on the course. And I was like, “okay, yeah.” Well, at the time I obviously didn’t know who you were, but I received my schedule and I said, “okay, yeah, I mean of all the history teachers, that’s who I would have picked to teach this course.” As it turned out you are teaching the course instead, which is in my opinion a better choice, not because this other teacher was bad, but because for all the reasons that you explained, we have to- you know, they were intentional about figuring out who would best approach this course in their own identity and in their- their areas of expertise as well. In- in a conversation with a guidance counselor earlier in the year, we were discussing the creation of this course and about how the semi-original plan was to have you co-teach this course with another teacher.
Xavier: Yeah, yeah, that was-
Callie: And then the equity team got together and thought, “Would we do that in any other class? No, we wouldn’t, actually.” And I thought that was interesting. I thought it was good that the school was thinking about who’s teaching what in those ways. I found it reassuring.
Xavier: Yeah. Yeah, I mean that story is exactly true. I would say there is another layer to that, interestingly.
Callie: Uncovering the mysteries.
Xavier: Yeah.
Callie: Plot twist: this podcast is just me being nosy about how the school system works. (Xavier laughs)
Xavier: But also having audio proof of what happened to then hold people accountable.
Callie: Yeah.
Xavier: Which is great.
Callie: I’m coming for you guys again, school system, you can’t get rid of me yet.
Xavier: I mean I’ve always said-
Callie: I have no plans to come for them yet, don’t worry about it.
Xavier: Well, I’ve always joked with friends, if my students one day decided to overthrow my class and protest me, I feel like I’ve done my job well. Which is to create critical thinkers that take their lives seriously. Returning to the story, originally it was supposed to be co-taught. I actually originally advocated for the idea of it remaining co-taught. For this year. I was thinking the following years didn’t need to be co-taught. But I have a lot of admiration for the person who was going to originally teach this course and logistically- not logistically, but practically speaking, I was thinking about the reality that this teacher is well-respected by students in this class. And like you were saying, at this point, none of y’all knew me, and I think that there was a significant asset in having a teacher who already had previous relationships with y’all. Now of course, every class, you know, there’s a lot of students that don’t know the teacher and you’re starting from scratch, but thinking about being in a pandemic year, being able to have those previous relationships to make the Zoom world more cozy-feeling is a good thing. Also I- I do think- thinking about the racial dynamics of teaching it as Black teacher and a white teacher… would be interesting, given our current political climate.
Callie: Yeah, I mean, I can’t say what it would have been like, but I do think that students felt empowered to say things in your class where they would not have felt empowered to say things in a co-taught class or- or taught by a white teacher.
Xavier: Yeah. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. And that’s something that I, quite honestly, didn’t think of on the front end.
Callie: It would be hard to think of! Obviously these decisions are so, like, top-down, administration heavy that it sometimes- it’s- it’s difficult to think through all of the intricacies of how this is going to affect the internal thought processes of the students and how they end up perceiving things. It’s easy to overlook those things even in- in a classroom setting because it’s- because it’s internal, because it’s non verbal. But I think that the way students perceive a class and the way they feel interacting in the class or the way they feel not interacting with it is almost like the most valuable information about how a class is going.
Xavier: Yeah. Yeah, one of the things that I was thinking about is that the co-taught platform would really offer an interesting window into the idea of reconciliation – some people like to take off the “re” part because they don’t think there’s ever initial conciliation – but I think that co-teaching format would have lended itself to different conversations. Also good, but yes, the empowering of student voices is key. And I do think you’re right that this format that we ended up going with was the right decision, even though I mean, initially I was like, “No, I actually kind of like this idea, for this one year, to do that.”
Callie: And I’m sure it would have been fine. You know? Like there’s no one right answer. There are a lot of ways to do something well or fine. But I- I like the way that this year panned out.
Xavier: Yeah. This is something too, returning to your question about Gen Z earlier. I am legitimately so amazed by Gen Z’s social consciousness. Y’all are more aware, in part due to social media. Like when I was in high school, I mean, I think my senior year was when Trayvon Martin was killed, but there was no serious conversation about that taking place at my high school.
Callie: You went to a predominantly white high school, yes?
Xavier: Yep, predominantly white high school. Graduation class of 313, there was probably like 15 students of color.
Callie: Oof.
Xavier: Going into this year, this academic year, I didn’t have that clear understanding of how socially conscious y’all were.
Callie: Did we surprise you?
Xavier: Yes! In so many great ways. I mean, whether it’s the terms y’all used and like, were able to explain ideas to me. I mean, even you – I hope this is okay with me sharing – learning the term “gold star lesbian.”
Callie: Oh, yeah.
Xavier: Yeah, I didn’t know what that term was. And I think that goes to show, like, to the listening piece you were talking about earlier, teachers needing to listen to their students. We can learn from y’all if we don’t have the get-off-my-lawn approach to the world and are willing to listen and take y’all seriously as thinkers. I mean, I think a lot of times the way society is structured it feels like – well, particularly given that you can’t vote in this country until you’re eighteen – it feels as though I can’t participate in the building of what the society is like but Gen Z is really returning to what the teenagers of the Civil Rights Movement were doing, of being very politically active, even before they could vote. I mean, in fairness to both sides, you know, since we are in a binary politically in this country, you know people on the right, teenagers advocating for the abortion laws that they find to be important. Teenagers on the left, when President Trump was holding a rally in Tulsa you know TikTok users and everything kind of buying up different seats so that his audience size isn’t as large as he actually thinks it is.
Callie: I can confirm that I participated in this.
Xavier: See? I mean that’s- that’s awesome! Like that, legitimately, is innovative in ways that, you know, a Millennial like me wouldn’t even think they do! Like I- I appreciate TikTok but I’ve never thought of it as, like, an organizing platform to disrupt things in serious ways. So like, yeah, I mean, that’s also the interesting thing about Gen Z, is like y’all know how to use social media to be engaged in politics, again, before you can even vote. Which is admirable.
Callie: Yeah, I think that a lot of us felt very disempowered by our inability to vote in the- in the 2016 and 2020 elections, and we just have a lot of anger and resentment towards the systems that we felt harmed us. You know, we- we- we do take to social media, and we- we use the tools that we have and we make them into tools that will serve us better. Yeah, I think that we just… hm… we feel like we don’t have any power. And so we have to make our own.
Xavier: So one of my favorite Audre Lorde quotes – hopefully by now you understand that Audre Lorde is one of my favorite people of all time.
Callie: I gathered that.
Xavier: One of my favorite quotes of hers is: “My silences have not protected me, your silence will not protect you.” And she writes this quote while she is thinking she’s on a path of terminal cancer. She ultimately survives and goes into remission, but she’s kind of reflecting on this idea of like, there were so many things that she left unsaid as a form of protection, of self-preservation. Whether it’s her academic career, whether it’s, you know, not trying to create conflicts in certain spaces or to advance certain ideas, she kind of reflects on this idea of like, “If I’m about to die of cancer, not saying those things didn’t ultimately protect me from death. Either way, I’m going to die.” So yeah, I mean, just the refusal- like creating your own voice is so important, and Gen Z is so effective at creating its own voice.
Callie: So, what’s next for you? Plans? Hopes? Dreams? Aspirations?
Xavier: Aspirations? World peace.
Callie: World peace! Let’s get it, guys.
Xavier: Just an aspiration of mine.
Callie: Xavier said so, let’s go for it.
Xavier: Honestly! We got to! We got to. What’s next for me? Hoping to go home. I haven’t been home since the beginning of the pandemic, so I haven’t seen my folks, my siblings, nephews and nieces in… 16, 17 months now. Really looking forward to just hugging my grandma, eating some home-cooked food.
Callie: Yeah.
Xavier: Teaching summer school.
Callie: Oh, really?
Xavier: Yeah.
Callie: Cool!
Xavier: Teaching summer school, so the grind don’t stop for me. Looking forward to reading! Oh my gosh, I have been reading a lot for school which I’m very grateful that like what I read for school is aligned with what I’m interested in, but I have some other books that I’m really interested in reading. I’m in the middle of one right now and since this is Pride month I’m gonna give a shameless plug for a book. It is Felix Ever After by Kacen Callender. It’s a book that is featuring a protagonist of color that is queer and-
Callie: Nice.
Xavier: It’s a wonderful story. It’s a young adult book, the story reads very well, it’s very vivacious in the way that it offers details. I mean, I can’t put it down. I’m grateful to have the summer time to start reading books.
Callie: That’s great.
Xavier: Just for pleasure and not having to think about, “How can I turn this into something that I teach?”
Callie: Yeah, yeah it takes a little bit of the- the- the- the ease out of reading if you have to-
Xavier: Yes.
Callie: To think about that.
Xavier: What would you say Gen Z wants the most out of public education?
Callie: Hmm…
Xavier: Does Gen Z want anything out of public education?
Callie: This is a difficult question to answer because, for me, right now the only thing I want out of public education is to get out of it. (both laugh) But thinking about my generation- speaking for my generation as a whole, I’m the representative now.
Xavier: There it is! That’s it!
Callie: I think that- I think that you’re on the right track. Like, liberation, care, compassion. We want to learn, like, inherently. We want to- to be interested, and we want to have time to figure out what interests us. The curriculums of public schools feel too restrictive and then people end up not knowing what they want to do with themselves. And also, of course pushed to “succeed” and do the most and get into the best college, and then you end up there, and you’re like “… now what??” You’re on the right track in seeking feedback and trying to figure out what each student is interested in and would like to learn and do. So I think that the best thing that teachers can do is approach each student as an individual as best you can. It’s hard to think of Gen Z outside of my own experience. (Xavier laughs) It’s a problem I’ve run into a lot in the podcast, of like, “This was going to be a podcast about like, life experience from the perspective of Gen Z, but it’s actually just about me.” Which is fine! Just not what I expected.
Xavier: Well, I think, you know, as you started your answer jokingly, you know you can’t speak for all of Gen Z anyways, and you understand that. But you are a part of Gen Z and so you offer a window into one of many Gen Z experiences.
Callie: Yes. I do. Well thank you for joining me today, it’s been a pleasure to have you. I’ve wanted you to come on the podcast since the semester started, but now that I’m not a student anymore, I finally felt like I could do it.
Xavier: It’s been a joy to be here. I am grateful for all of your work this semester. The thoughts that you’ve offered, the comments, your presence in the classroom. It went a long way for all of us. So thank you.
Callie: I am… I am very grateful for you giving me the space to have those thoughts.
Xavier: All right! Take care.
Callie: You too!
Thank you for listening to Fast Facts for Gen Z. Be kind to your teachers! They try very hard. If you like this podcast, be sure to follow it so you never miss an episode. This is Callie, signing off.
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